[Kev242]

Your buddy might get ya on acceleration but try him under braking! Huge strong point of the 959. The whole package is so well balanced between power/braking/stability that pushing a little on track it can run with higher HP bikes, but the time is made up in different areas.

Btw, snapping the throttle on any modern sport bike in 1st is a serious question of faith! Traction, wheelies, centrifugal force, is serious even at 20mph.

 

[SquireSCA]

Your buddy might get ya on acceleration but try him under braking! Huge strong point of the 959. The whole package is so well balanced between power/braking/stability that pushing a little on track it can run with higher HP bikes, but the time is made up in different areas.

Btw, snapping the throttle on any modern sport bike in 1st is a serious question of faith! Traction, wheelies, centrifugal force, is serious even at 20mph.

I almost feel like I would like it better with DTC off, so I wouldn’t be trusting the electronics to keep it down and all that... I can predict it more based on what I feel...

 

[SquireSCA]

I think that is where my concern is. The electronics are a bit crude on the 959 compared to other bikes. So it’s not smooth or consistent. Sometimes it keeps the front end down and moving forward, other times it’s bucking and struggling to keep it under control, the lower gearing and added power from the tune just made all that more pronounced...

 

[Dingo]

@SquireSCA - it sounds like a day at an advanced training school will do you justice. What I'm gathering from your descriptions of how the bike behaves now after the ECU tune, is that you need to adjust more of your weight forward so that the balance is more in line with driving forward instead of bringing the front wheel up. You can easily drive forward with the front wheel a foot off the ground, shifting from first to send seamlessly with the DQS, If you sit like you're on a Harley the wheel will live in the air, if you sit like you're doing 140mph at full lean angle you go fast going forward with little wheel lift.

 

[SquireSCA]

@SquireSCA - it sounds like a day at an advanced training school will do you justice. What I'm gathering from your descriptions of how the bike behaves now after the ECU tune, is that you need to adjust more of your weight forward so that the balance is more in line with driving forward instead of bringing the front wheel up. You can easily drive forward with the front wheel a foot off the ground, shifting from first to send seamlessly with the DQS, If you sit like you're on a Harley the wheel will live in the air, if you sit like you're doing 140mph at full lean angle you go fast going forward with little wheel lift.

I get what you are saying, let me try to be a little more clear...

I am fine with wheelies... Most of the bikes I have had over the years(24) didn't have any electronic rider aids... so CBR1000rr, FZ1, 999s, 848, SF1098, 1198, Tuono 1000r Factory, etc... All powerful bikes, no electronics...

So I am used to having to launch and modulate power with my wrist to keep myself out of a hedge... haha

What is throwing me off is my recent adoption of a couple bikes, this one included, with rider aids... I had to force myself to just ignore my gut and trust them, that the engineers knew what they were doing and it would "just work"...

With the newly unlocked power and more aggressive delivery, added to the shorter gearing that I had/have in place, it seems like I am more readily finding the limitations of this older generation electronics package, that's all. It kicks in and cuts power but it isn't consistent... front comes up a little and it sets it back down, but then the next time it comes WAY up to the point that you feel like you need to manually cut the throttle... So just in one launch, in first gear the front comes up 2 or 3 times and you never quite know when or how much the electronics will step in.

It's not that the bike isn't safe, it is just that... when you ride the Speed RS... that bike makes more torque, and 30hp more for most of the rev range, in a more upright bike. And despite that massive power bump, you can HAMMER the gas in any gear and the electronics are so smooth, you almost don't notice they are there. You know that they are working by virtue of you not being on your head with the bike on top of you, but that's about it...

The Panigale feels clumsy, erratic a bit, so I just have a harder time being comfortable with it... Does that make sense?

That's why I was considering going back to stock gearing... Because I know that gearing can add to acceleration, but if the ECU is pulling power in the lower gears, then am I really accelerating faster? Might not one, be cancelled out by the other?

 

[SquireSCA]

But then the other side of me says that stock gears, which in turn pushes the wheel back, will make it launch and accelerate in first better, would then hurt me in the higher gears where wheelies are not a concern... LOL

 

[Dingo]

You need a baseline, and you don't have that now. Put the stock gearing back on and see how the bike is meant to perform. Adjust the electronics to suit, and then adjust gearing if need be to your riding style.

 

[SquireSCA]

You need a baseline, and you don't have that now. Put the stock gearing back on and see how the bike is meant to perform. Adjust the electronics to suit, and then adjust gearing if need be to your riding style.

Yeah, I will play around with it... I think my issue isn't the power. I have had bikes, including torquey Ducs, with more power than this... It's more how the electronics is behaving, and really then only in first... If it just kept the front end down, or it let it come up a foot and kept it there, etc... I wouldn't mind it.

But it doesn't... its kind of herky and jerky and not consistent and it's very distracting because you aren't quite sure how it will react when you hit the throttle... Sometimes it cuts in and keeps things inline, other times it is abrupt and the wheel goes up and down, sometimes a little, sometimes a lot. Hard to have confidence when you aren't really sure what its gonna happen...

 

[SquireSCA]

So I allowed my OCD to go into overtime with this, and I anguished about it back and forth. I don't have OCD about a lot of things, but my bike is one of them. Guns, and making sure that my optics are always dialed in perfectly, is another... LOL

Anyway, I just decided that at my skill level, which is experienced street rider with 20+ years and 200k+ miles, and a novice to intermediate track day rider... is that I still know a lot less than the Ducati engineers when it comes to the electronics.

So I will leave the gearing where it's at, and just restored Race and Sport mode to the factory defaults, and I will just adapt and ride the bike around those modes and call it a day and not worry about it.

I set up WET mode in the popular "Wheelies Every Time" setting of EBC-1, DTC-0, ABS-1 and that will be my "hooligan mode" button. I really never ride in the rain, and if I do, sport mode is pretty tame and I will just use that.

I could go back to stock gears and that would tone down launches, but it will take away acceleration in the upper gears, and I am a big guy and don't want to lose that.

So, I will need a little seat time to just get used to how I need to ride this thing and I will do a track day at Road Atlanta this spring and see how she does...

 

[DarR]

I really never ride in the rain, and if I do, sport mode is pretty tame and I will just use that.

WET mode is like a parachute you wear before flying out into a hurricane. SPORT mode is pretty tame until it isn't.
You're still at 100% power with tires that are not the best in rainy conditions.
Do be careful if you get caught in a downpour. A friend dropped his Panigale when he underestimated the slippery road conditions.

 

[SquireSCA]

Well, as luck would have it, I might not have the 959 much longer. I just bought a 2018 Tuono V4 1100RR... Aprilia had some low financing and incentives and I got the bike for $13,799 which is actually a bit less than I paid for the 959.

Picking it up tomorrow and trying to decide if I am gonna keep the Pani or sell it.

 

[jbehnke]

darn you people selling your 959s!!!!

That being said, the Tuono is a heck of a bike for the money. There are now 3 of them in group of guys I ride with and 1 RSV4 (stinkin' aprilias)

Nothing looks like the 959 though...... >

 

[SquireSCA]

darn you people selling your 959s!!!!

That being said, the Tuono is a heck of a bike for the money. There are now 3 of them in group of guys I ride with and 1 RSV4 (stinkin' aprilias)

Nothing looks like the 959 though...... >

True. I am torn on whether or not to keep it. Took a pay cut and had some extra expenses pop up so I am torn between trying to juggle things to keep it, or just letting it go. The idea of two bikes sounds good, but the reality is that I see myself picking one bike to ride, or the other mostly and so having extra payment and insurance for something I would rarely use, seems wasteful...

 

[KarlKani]

True. I am torn on whether or not to keep it. Took a pay cut and had some extra expenses pop up so I am torn between trying to juggle things to keep it, or just letting it go. The idea of two bikes sounds good, but the reality is that I see myself picking one bike to ride, or the other mostly and so having extra payment and insurance for something I would rarely use, seems wasteful...

I feel you. I have had multiple bikes on a couple occasions and you only end up riding one for the most part. Do what makes sense for you. These kinda bikes you can always get another one!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[nickname89]

I know some people see it as overkill, but are there any rubbing issues going -1 in the front and +2 in the rear? Might have been said in the last 16 pages...

 

[SquireSCA]

I know some people see it as overkill, but are there any rubbing issues going -1 in the front and +2 in the rear? Might have been said in the last 16 pages...

I don't think that -1 or +2 makes a rubbing difference. I mean, we are talking what, 2mm difference in the diameter of the front sprocket? Plus, the little bit closer to the swingarm that the smaller front sprocket might make, I would imagine is offset by the slightly larger rear pulling the chain back away from the swingarm...

I wouldn't worry about it. Done -1/+2 on dozens of bikes over the years and never had a problem...

 

[nickname89]

I don't think that -1 or +2 makes a rubbing difference. I mean, we are talking what, 2mm difference in the diameter of the front sprocket? Plus, the little bit closer to the swingarm that the smaller front sprocket might make, I would imagine is offset by the slightly larger rear pulling the chain back away from the swingarm...

I wouldn't worry about it. Done -1/+2 on dozens of bikes over the years and never had a problem...

Sounds like a good summer project then. Thanks!

 

[SquireSCA]

Sounds like a good summer project then. Thanks!

Yeah, the rear is easy, takes 15 minutes start to finish, the front is a pain in the ***, the front sprocket requires a ton of things to be removed and pulled out to get it out.

For that reason I went with +3 on the rear, and used that as an excuse to get a gold chain so that I could have it +2 links from stock, in order to keep the stock wheelbase with the larger rear sprocket.

Whereas -1/+2 the sprocket sizes sorta cancel each other out and keeps the wheelbase largely the same. Chain costs more than a front sprocket, but it was an easier install and looks better.

 

[nickname89]

Yeah, the rear is easy, takes 15 minutes start to finish, the front is a pain in the ***, the front sprocket requires a ton of things to be removed and pulled out to get it out.

For that reason I went with +3 on the rear, and used that as an excuse to get a gold chain so that I could have it +2 links from stock, in order to keep the stock wheelbase with the larger rear sprocket.

Whereas -1/+2 the sprocket sizes sorta cancel each other out and keeps the wheelbase largely the same. Chain costs more than a front sprocket, but it was an easier install and looks better.

Doesn't going down teeth in the front and going up teeth in the rear do the same thing (make the bike accelerate faster). I don't think they'd cancel each other out...

 

[SquireSCA]

Doesn't going down teeth in the front and going up teeth in the rear do the same thing (make the bike accelerate faster). I don't think they'd cancel each other out...

Cancel each other out as far as making the chain rub on the swingarm, not acceleration. The smaller front might move the chain a couple mm closer to the swingarm, but the larger rear will help pull it up and away from the swingarm...