[Alain Mengoli]

Hi guys,
New to the forum, I have a 2017 model with a Termi de cat pipe and one off side silincer. I have a woolich tuner box and was wondering what maps people have? I have switched all TPS to 100%. Left the pre ignition ( which looks very advanced). I have done a rolling road and richened low and lightened it up the rev range to keep to the 14:1 etc. I am bit dissapointed with only 140BHP at the wheel is this to be expected or are there any tricks on the mapping (and yes I know every exhaust system is different) both ignition and fueling?

Can these engine run light i.e. more air to fuel mixture or are we asking for trouble. BTW I have a bad dip at around 4.5-6K can't seem to change this, is this due to cams profiles?

Thanks in advance
Alain

 

[DJ Shrug]

Hi guys,
New to the forum, I have a 2017 model with a Termi de cat pipe and one off side silincer. I have a woolich tuner box and was wondering what maps people have? I have switched all TPS to 100%. Left the pre ignition ( which looks very advanced). I have done a rolling road and richened low and lightened it up the rev range to keep to the 14:1 etc. I am bit dissapointed with only 140BHP at the wheel is this to be expected or are there any tricks on the mapping (and yes I know every exhaust system is different) both ignition and fueling?

Can these engine run light i.e. more air to fuel mixture or are we asking for trouble. BTW I have a bad dip at around 4.5-6K can't seem to change this, is this due to cams profiles?

Thanks in advance
Alain

Couple of questions:

• What do you mean by: "I have done a rolling road and richened low and lightened it up the rev range to keep to the 14:1 etc."
  
  • Setting most of the map to around ~14.7 AFR should be fine (except toward the WOT load area and/or by how aggressive you are tuning) as there's not too much detonation risk for anywhere but under the WOT load, at which you should be setting the AFR to ~12.5.
• Why would you want to run lean/"light"?
  
  • Please don't say fuel efficiency.
• 140BHP measured by a dyno? By butt-dyno?
  
  • Engine tuning is only effective with quantitative measurements.
• I suppose you wouldn't be asking a motorcycle forum if you're asking these questions, but if you're on a dyno, that dip you're perceiving is tuned through ignition timing.
  
  • Simplified, advancing timing = more torque. Advancing timing = increased detonation chance. Fueling follows timing.

So long as your engine isn't knocking, you could add timing to the 4.5-6K and adjust the fueling accordingly until the dip is reduced. Hard to say if you can remove the dip completely - next option is to pull timing in the adjacent rev ranges (ie. reduce torque so there are no mountains near the dip, flattening it out).

 

[Alain Mengoli]

Hi DJ Shrug,
Thanks for the response,
I am no expert and probably one of those dangerous people with little knowledge
I menat to say 14:7 not 14:1. I was told that having the engine lean would run it hot but give more bhp but may cause the engine's life to be shortened. Just what I was told.
Same dyno on my 1098 hit 158bhp rear (probably diferent temp and fuel) wheel the 959 more like 139... I thought it would give more.

So in essence add more advance and fuel?
My woolich racing ecu isn't the full monty so have no one the go AFR sensor, may have to upgrade...

 

[DJ Shrug]

I am no expert and probably one of those dangerous people with little knowledge

No worries, it's definitely fun to tinker around, but keep in mind that you risk damaging your engine if you mess it up. There's a reason tuners charge upwards of 400USD per hour (+dyno time in some cases) for engine tuning.

I was told that having the engine lean would run it hot but give more bhp but may cause the engine's life to be shortened.

True to some extent, but not for the right reasons. Running lean increases the combustion temperature which can be seen as running more efficient/powerful, but the risks of detonation increase so much more. The reason why more fuel is added (say to ~12.5:1 AFR) is for its reduction in incoming air temperature (evaporative cooling) which reduces the risk of detonation drastically.

"Why not just run pig rich all the time then?" Too much fuel just washes away the oil on the cylinders and the rings get fried. Also waste of fuel and its hard to quantify how much addition fuel deters knocking.

So in essence add more advance and fuel?

As you can imagine, its so much more complex than this, but yes. If you have a dyno, you can directly see the feedback of adding ignition (eg. +2deg of timing between 7-8k nets a +5HP improvement across that range or -2deg of timing between 4.5-6k nets a +1HP improvement at 4.5k but -5HP at 6k). You adjust the fueling accordingly to attempt to fight knocking.

One tip: an indicator for tuning direction is what happens to AFR when you change timing. If you add timing and the AFR goes lean, that means your engine wants more fuel - shows that you can potentially make more power at that rev range through more timing and more fuel. Knocking isn't particularly loud so its tough to identify sometimes, but there's a point where too much advancing will cause detonation.

 

[Alain Mengoli]

That's great info, as you said knowing knocking is occuring is the hard bit. Car have knock sensors suppose it another electric part on a bike to go wrong and take up space.

 

[Alain Mengoli]

DJ Shrug,
Have you got an ignition map to share I'd like to see how much off it is to the standard?

 

[DJ Shrug]

Nope sorry. You could try and reach out to Woolich to see if they'll give you a base map.