Ducati 959 Panigale Forum banner

1 - 20 of 30 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
70 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Howdy all,

Got my 959 (red) about 2 weeks ago.. goes in for the 600 service tomorrow. Lat bike was a CBR 600 and many years ago.

So far I haven't changed one thing except throwing a set of rear spools on it. My experience:

The heat isn't the end of the world... stop complaining, remember you're riding a rocket

The suspension is brick hard... Its confidence inspiring in the turns for sure but like riding a 2x4. This will get adjust either during the service or just after.

I have had a terrible time with the hard to start issue. I am going to try the "start the bike within 5 seconds of the ECU coming on" in about 2 minutes. What I know to be utterly useless is: cycling the key multiple times quickly (doesn't even make a small bit of sense), the tank having too much back pressure, the bike being "too cold." I will also ask the dealership about removing the carbon can tomorrow.

the red paint sure does scratch super easy... need to get something on it asap as I'm not really the best at cleaning my bike a lot. I do like the saying "ride it like you stole it, clean it like you own it"... I just suck at the later part.

I'm not much of one to change a lot of things from the factory but I will say the rear view mirrors totally suck so ARG Arrow mirrors will almost certainly be the next purchase. I'll probably grab the Sato or T-rex slider just in case and eventually I will get around to replacing that phallic thing that hold my license plate on but frankly, I don't have to look at it so it doesn't bother me that much.

I'll check out race mode after the service... and I did a fairly decent job of staying under 6K... the times I went over, the bike was plenty hot... its rady to be run like it was made to be!!

Planning to do a track day Aug 8th and planning to get as many miles on it between now and then.

Cheers

Andrew
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
61 Posts
Welcome! I've had a couple of cold starts that gave me a problem but usually gets going after a few goes. I just get ready to give the throttle a little twist as soon as it ignites. If I was expecting this, I'd do it on the first try because it fires up then dies right away. But since I've only experienced it a couple times hopefully I won't need to.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
70 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
well, I'll tell you that I don't think that I have had it start on the first try after the bike had been sitting for more than a few hours until tonight... its 72-77 degrees in my garage and I would think that couldn't be more ideal but it take 3-5 attempts EVERY time... tonight I did the whole start as soon as the ECU stops making noise and it did start on the first attempt... barely... it hit, missed, missed and then caught another stroke and struggled back to life... sounded like crap for 10+ seconds... 1 is not really a statistically relevant sample but I'll try it again. Though that will likely only be one more time before I ask the dealer to take the carbon can off tomorrow unless they refuse.

I'm sure some here will hate this but.... I had a 2001 CBR600F4I from 2003-2007 or so... it had ~10K miles on it when I got it and ~30K when I sold it and I'll swear on a stack of bibles, that bike started on the 3rd stroke EVERY SINGLE TIME without fail. This BS of struggling to start a brand new, fuel injected bike in perfect temps really makes one wonder what they paid a premium for and how will it act with age and cold temps????
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
892 Posts
Welcome to the forums! I'm new myself, just got a white one this past weekend.

I hope I don't run into it myself, but hopefully you get the starting issue fixed, in the other thread, sounds like its hit or miss on removing the carbon canister: It is now a KNOWN issue.

Try this - it's worked for me everytime so far. Attempt to start the bike as normal if it doesn't start 1st go turn off the bike using the key and wait around 90 seconds at about 75 second mark you'll hear a tick. At this point try to start it up again - fingers crossed. If you keep trying to start it, it seems to flood the engine, same thing if trying to blip the throttle (what a duc tech told me).

I'm looking to get the Sato sliders myself, what are you leaning towards as far as Sato vs. T-Rex?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
70 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Welcome to the forums! I'm new myself, just got a white one this past weekend.

I hope I don't run into it myself, but hopefully you get the starting issue fixed, in the other thread, sounds like its hit or miss on removing the carbon canister: It is now a KNOWN issue.




I'm looking to get the Sato sliders myself, what are you leaning towards as far as Sato vs. T-Rex?
Well the dealership did the 600 mile service today and started a warranty claim. They did note that the charcoal canister was ~75% full... whatever that means, I have never filled the tank beyond the lower edge of the neck per the manual. I'm not willing to wait 75 seconds to start my bike; that is just BS that no one buying a brand new bike should have to deal with... I will, unapologetically, demand that they take the bike back and I'll go buy something else. For the price, I am seriously unwilling to put up with this issue. Local dealership guys think that Ducati will release a new fuel mapping that will fix it but I've not seen anything saying that Ducati is really working a new mapping, let alone that they are messaging that it will resolve the "cold start" issue. We will see where this ends up.

As for Frame sliders, I haven't decided... the dealership was pushing the Sato sliders and the salesman says he has seen several track crashes where the Sato sliders were very effective... I'd like to see/ hear of some experiences with the T-Rex sliders.

I did grab the CRG Arrow rear view mirrors, NRG block off set-up, and NRG undertail. The dealership actually did me well on these matching the best price I could find online or even beating it and I got them today... I'll be busy tomorrow!

Andrew
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
70 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
Cool. I'm from Mill Creek and avigil is in the area too. Welcome!
We be neighbors!... I'm new to the site but will try to figure out if I can PM you as I also live in Mill Creek and would love to get together and talk bikes, etc. Glad to have someone else so close as I am new to Ducati and haven't owned a Sport bike since moving to Seattle and would to find out about some great roads near by.

Cheers

Drew
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
892 Posts
Well the dealership did the 600 mile service today and started a warranty claim. They did note that the charcoal canister was ~75% full... whatever that means, I have never filled the tank beyond the lower edge of the neck per the manual. I'm not willing to wait 75 seconds to start my bike; that is just BS that no one buying a brand new bike should have to deal with... I will, unapologetically, demand that they take the bike back and I'll go buy something else. For the price, I am seriously unwilling to put up with this issue. Local dealership guys think that Ducati will release a new fuel mapping that will fix it but I've not seen anything saying that Ducati is really working a new mapping, let alone that they are messaging that it will resolve the "cold start" issue. We will see where this ends up.
Hope it all works out. No one's posted any updates from the other thread, so keep us updated on what happens.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
70 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
I will, they called me today and said the warranty rep has approved a "one time charcoal canister replacement." They had to order the part so we will see how long it takes to get in. I'm going to be especially careful about coming no where near the fuel neck when fueling as well. If that fixes the issue (or if it doesn't frankly), I'll likely pull the canister off myself and just put it back on for the 7500 mile service to avoid any warranty BS and not have to worry about filling the tank over 3/4 full. If removing the canister fixes the issue, I'll just do the same, put it back on for the services and write to Ducati.

PS My local dealer claims this is the first time they have actual filed a warranty claim for this against a 959. I explained that it was exceedingly common according to the internet griping and made it abundantly clear that I was not going to be very happy if the warrant claim rep. tried to act like this isn't something that he deals with regularly and makes me do something stupid like leave my bike with them overnight so they can try a "cold" start.

PSS They also noted that they dumped out the canister during the service and a few drops came out. Just before I arrived at the dealership, the fuel light came on. I rode about 15 miles home without getting gas. Jumped on the bike this morning before work and it failed to start... doesn't give me a lot of confidence that a new charcoal can is going to do much.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
43 Posts
@ASavageFox - Hey, Andrew — there are quite a few threads that are pending reply on my end, but these past two weeks have been drastically preoccupying, and along with that... I've hardly had much time to jump on the forums with a plethora of priorities. Just seeing this topic alone though, I'm sorry to hear that you, too, are also facing this issue. As far as engine sliders go, the general consensus with the preceding two Panigale models (899 and 1199) on a number of Ducati forums has been that the R&G set provided the most effective crash protection. With the T-Rex, you're having a traditional slide-focused ideology, but the impact strike may leave a lot of force transferred to the engine (aka the frame). For this reason, if you're still going to have sliders, you would want something that distributes the pressure across a large span of area rather than focusing on outer vulnerabilities, since you'd rather have your fairings cracked than the internal manifolds of the engine bay. The R&G takes literally forever to install and connects to the most bolt-on's out of the trio of engine slider options. Perhaps it doesn't necessarily look like the prettiest due to the unconventional teardrop shape, but a very respected member over on the Panigale forums, who works at Ducati Omaha and tracks Panigale's regularly, has witnessed several crashes and claims the R&G's to be the most impressive.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
70 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
Thanks for the info... I will likely go for the R&Gs... the Satos but seemed pricey for a pretty simple set-up.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
70 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
Since my service, I've only had one failed start (the very next morning). So far, the one thing that I've done consistently that seems to be working is starting the bike just after the ECU completes its start up cycle. Probably had 5 straight starts on teh first try (knock on wood). I haven't tried waiting 15-20 seconds as I might have in the past while doing something like putting a jacket on, etc to see if it would fail to start.

I have NOT tried ethanol free gas... despite what others have said, my Shell stations gas pumps clearly state "may contain up to 10% ethanol." Using the website that someone linked (thank you!) the only stations with ethanol free gas near me seem to be at marinas.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
556 Posts
I've used ethanol free gas. Doesnt effect cold start and you won't feel the performance without a tune for it and even then maybe not still.

The charcoal canister has historically only been a hot start problem.

There has been no rhyme or reason to my successful and failed cold starts. No correlation to ambient air temperature or tank fill level or proximity to a Prius or the other :)rolleyes:s) that I'm always hearing about.

Since the first 1199 models started revealing these issues, what formal, definitive fix has Ducati offered?

Gentlemen,
Our problems aren't the tip of the spear, they're the back of the handle. I would expect the same fix with the same timeliness that the '12 1199 owners are still waiting on.

I really want to contribute a solution but pretty much everything has been tried and posted on the pretransition 1199 forum by an innovative owner or an empathetic dealer. There's a plethora of available research on ducati1299.com to root out the things that have been done if you want to keep at it.

Please disregard my defeatist attitude, I'm still in purgatory.

A6H, out
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
462 Posts
I have ~6,300 miles on my bike and 4 track days. South Sound Ducati (Seattle area) replaced the charcoal filter a couple months ago. At first, it resolved the cold start issue. But after a few days it slowly came back. Now it's really hit or miss.

When south sound had my bike, they said that they would have to charge me if they removed the charcoal canister but if they replaced it then they could do it under warranty. So I opted for them to replace it.

I really like this dealer. But they gave me advice which conflicts with some of the things that have been said here. They told me that overfilling would make the canister worse. They recommended that when I start the bike that I wait for awhile after I turn it on before attempting a start. They also said to never blip the throttle when starting. They said that doing so would make the canister problem worse. It sounds like there are a lot of different stories being told about this. It's really hard for me to know what is the best course of action.

My bike has always eventually started. But it has taken several minutes. Sometimes I've had to go through cycles of turning the bike off then back on again (waiting 1 minute in between). I also hope they do get a solution to this.

What dealership did you have your canister replaced at?

P.S. 0v3rc10ck3d , ASavageFox: I sent you both a PM. Since we're all in the same area, we should get together for a ride.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
70 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
I'm with Kevin on this issue in general but am happy to try what ever that doesn't cost money or break the "laws" of common sense in the mean time. Blipping the throttle to me makes no sense... the issue, if being portrayed properly is that the bike is already giving it to much gas (Ducati choose a lower powered battery for wait savings and richened the start settings to support the weak cranking). Not sure what waiting does other than possibly tricks the ECU into not being is said "start mode." That said, it would directly conflict with my recent (albeit limited) success with starting within 5 seconds of the ECU power up sequence ending. An updated fuel mapping would seem like the most likely factory provided solution. Has anyone noticed a difference based on what mode the bike is in (Race, Sport, wet)?

I will have Ducati Seattle replace my charcoal canister when they call me to let me know it has arrived. They told me that mine was the first time they have made a warranty claim for this issue which shocked me based on the amount of complaints on the internet.

Cheers and responded to your PM.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,920 Posts
I started my bike yesterday for the first time in 2 weeks - I wanted to see if it would start all on its own, without blipping the throttle which I been doing since day one and have never had it not start the first time. It burped and kept turning over, just as I suspected it would do. Without turning the key off then on again, I waited 5 seconds or so and tried again, blipping the throttle in time to get it going. I don't see this as a problem.

I guess part of the reason I don't see it as a problem is because I know how finicky engines are and can be. For over 20 years I've run and raced modified 2-strokes in my 1/5scale rc cars. I know, it's not the same, but the principles are.

I don't know Exactly Why my bike starts immediately with a blip of the throttle... I can say it either needs more air or more gas because of the sparkplug being used.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
892 Posts
I don't know Exactly Why my bike starts immediately with a blip of the throttle... I can say it either needs more air or more gas because of the sparkplug being used.
IMHO, charcoal canister is a cause, but probably not the root cause. I'm guessing its the decompressor system, which allows too much air into the engine at startup on some bikes. With the ECU still reading a zero throttle position, a excessively lean condition causes starting issues. Blipping the throttle allows the ECU compensate for the throttle position, thus adding more gas.

Just speculating.
 
1 - 20 of 30 Posts
Top