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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hi All,

While I'm riding my bike and hit the front brakes, it seems like the first pull of the front brake lever feels softer than if I immediately let go (wait 1 second) and squeeze again. After I'm back to not using the brakes this proccess will repeat on the next first grab of the lever

So to sum up: the first pull of the brake lever travels slightly farther than the second pull which feels like its truly braking 'hard'.

It's very slight but I have noticed my stopping power is much better on that second lever pull. Which is starting to make me worried actually. (in case i had to emergency stop, that first pull is going to not be 100%)

I am going to take the bike in to the shop and have them check it out but i wanted to check first to see if anyone had this issue before? I thought i remember reading a while ago someone saying that you just had to bleed the front brake lever, but I wasn't sure if that seems like a symptom of it.

Any else experienced this? Is it just a case of needing to be bled?

Thanks,
 

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You could try bleeding at the master to see if that clears it up. I have to do that with my bikes quite often, although more often on the clutch side.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
You could try bleeding at the master to see if that clears it up. I have to do that with my bikes quite often, although more often on the clutch side.
Thanks Doug! I'll give this a go and see if it clears anything up. I'll let you know!
 

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Very common. Mine is exactly the same way and I hate it on track. I got a abs delete kit from ducati omaha to put on once it comes in
 

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Hi All,

While I'm riding my bike and hit the front brakes, it seems like the first pull of the front brake lever feels softer than if I immediately let go (wait 1 second) and squeeze again. After I'm back to not using the brakes this proccess will repeat on the next first grab of the lever

So to sum up: the first pull of the brake lever travels slightly farther than the second pull which feels like its truly braking 'hard'.

It's very slight but I have noticed my stopping power is much better on that second lever pull. Which is starting to make me worried actually. (in case i had to emergency stop, that first pull is going to not be 100%)

I am going to take the bike in to the shop and have them check it out but i wanted to check first to see if anyone had this issue before? I thought i remember reading a while ago someone saying that you just had to bleed the front brake lever, but I wasn't sure if that seems like a symptom of it.

Any else experienced this? Is it just a case of needing to be bled?

Thanks,
Mine is exactly as you described as well. I have bled the system many times and it has not corrected the issue. From the research I have done on this issue, apparently it is a very common issue on these bikes and I have yet to hear of a remedy... :(

-John
 

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Ditto - bled the line etc, still a bit of it. The clutch (OTOH) big difference. Stalled out the first time not expecting such a quick engagement :D
 

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Ditto - bled the line etc, still a bit of it. The clutch (OTOH) big difference. Stalled out the first time not expecting such a quick engagement :D
Yeah it can make a big difference. I usually end up doing the clutch side on my track bike close to every outing.
 

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Let me share my experience. Not too long ago, I would pull the front brake lever once, it would go in farther than normal, and then on the second pull, it would be back to normal. Did this constantly. It wasn't an issue of softness, like you're talking about, just travel. I finally realized that one of my front rotors was warped. What was happening is that the warped spinning rotor would keep on pushing the pads back out farther from their normal position and after the first pull and an immediate second pull the pads would come back in closer again to the normal location and the brake lever travel would be back to expected. Ended up getting some Bremo Oro rotors for a reasonable price, and the issue is long gone. I'm not saying that this is your experience and/or solution, I thought I would just share my experience. Not to mention, I could also tell the rotors were warped because of the slight pulsing in front at slow speeds. And believe me and take my word for it, one of the rotors was warped. It wasn't just pad surface deposits as you would most likely assume. I know some of you will still be calling my bluff on the 'warped' part, but I'm not going to defend myself any further.
 

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Let me share my experience. Not too long ago, I would pull the front brake lever once, it would go in farther than normal, and then on the second pull, it would be back to normal. Did this constantly. It wasn't an issue of softness, like you're talking about, just travel. I finally realized that one of my front rotors was warped. What was happening is that the warped spinning rotor would keep on pushing the pads back out farther from their normal position and after the first pull and an immediate second pull the pads would come back in closer again to the normal location and the brake lever travel would be back to expected. Ended up getting some Bremo Oro rotors for a reasonable price, and the issue is long gone. I'm not saying that this is your experience and/or solution, I thought I would just share my experience. Not to mention, I could also tell the rotors were warped because of the slight pulsing in front at slow speeds. And believe me and take my word for it, one of the rotors was warped. It wasn't just pad surface deposits as you would most likely assume. I know some of you will still be calling my bluff on the 'warped' part, but I'm not going to defend myself any further.
Makes perfect sense Flowbrook and I'm not discounting your findings/results, but for me(and I believe a few others that have posted in this thread) it happens(soft 1st pull condition) even while sitting still/not moving which would eliminate the rotors as the culprit.

Thanks,
-John
 

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Hmmm.... Here's a good test then... Lets say I go to my bike first thing in the morning, the first pull is soft, the second pull is spot on... I wonder what could be the issue. Even if I roll my bike out onto driveway, the pads will be pushed out if only a bit farther (with a situation of warped rotors, unbeknownst to me at the time), and I will notice that this first pull is still somewhat soft, albeit not as much as if I actually rode the bike. The test for me was to not ride or move the bike and to let some time elapse. Say, at 9am, I go to the garage and check: the first pull is soft, second pull is fine. Ok then. The next morning I come back to my bike (bike hasn't moved, lots of time has elapsed): first pull is spot on. Then, for me, that's how I knew the rotors were causing it - as the pads were still set in the normal position from the day before. Nothing could've moved them. (And obviously the front pulsing at slow speeds no matter how deeply I cleaned the front rotors was a good give-away). I was also skeptical on my bike at the time of the first pull being soft, second pull good, as a matter of the system constantly having to rebuild the pressure back up with each first pull. The reason why I waited a whole day to check again, was because if it was a 'pressure needing to be build back up issue', it would've definitely presented itself again after 24 hours had passed. Meaning, that next morning the pressure should've been low and the first pull should've been soft, but that wasn't the case, so I knew it wasn't a pressure issue. I'm not trying to moralize at all, I'm just sharing my thought-process on how I went about troubleshooting my issue. There are a lot of forums that say that rotors don't warp, or at least not often. When reading that, I just assumed that it meant 'never'. But I've learned that it does happen, although probably very infrequently, and that it could happen to someone else too, though it's always good to troubleshoot first the easier/cheaper possible weak links in the chain. I'm glad I'm not experiencing what Ike is experiencing, that sounds super frustrating. So, I am wondering with Ike, is if his bike experiences these symptoms only when the bike is in motion, or whether also at a standstill. Say he's just sitting on the bike, first pull soft, second pull good... Let some time elapse (5,10,30,60 seconds, 5 minutes, whatever). First pull soft, second pull good... If that was the case, it ain't a rotor issue. (which we already know, I'm just saying...) So my question for Ike, does it do this at a standstill? Or only with the bike in motion? And if it does it at a standstill? How much time needs to elapse for the first pull to become soft again? For instance, first pull soft, second pull good, wait x amount of seconds/minutes, is the first pull still good? How time would need to elapse for the first pull to become soft again?
 

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I have this same issue, its fucking awful. Bleeding/full fluid swap did nothing to fix it.
 

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I've been tempted to go the ABS-delete route to get more 'feeling' in the front brakes/lever. But I've already experienced the ABS on my 959 absolutely saving my life when I had to squeeze incredibly hard on the front brakes after a semi truck blatantly ran a red light. This has been the only time I've ever needed and/or felt the ABS to kick in, but yah, it saved my life. If I was on my '06 749, I would've been dead upon impact with his front grill (or ran over). Not trying to be a downer... But there's something comforting about ABS, at least for me, as my 959 is my daily driver/commuter.
 

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I've been tempted to go the ABS-delete route to get more 'feeling' in the front brakes/lever. But I've already experienced the ABS on my 959 absolutely saving my life when I had to squeeze incredibly hard on the front brakes after a semi truck blatantly ran a red light. This has been the only time I've ever needed and/or felt the ABS to kick in, but yah, it saved my life. If I was on my '06 749, I would've been dead upon impact with his front grill (or ran over). Not trying to be a downer... But there's something comforting about ABS, at least for me, as my 959 is my daily driver/commuter.

On the street I have zero issues with ABS but I don't think a dog will run onto the track in the rain so I'm deleting it. My bike is 90% track 10% street so I'll take the risk
 

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Hmmm.... Here's a good test then... Lets say I go to my bike first thing in the morning, the first pull is soft, the second pull is spot on... I wonder what could be the issue. Even if I roll my bike out onto driveway, the pads will be pushed out if only a bit farther (with a situation of warped rotors, unbeknownst to me at the time), and I will notice that this first pull is still somewhat soft, albeit not as much as if I actually rode the bike. The test for me was to not ride or move the bike and to let some time elapse. Say, at 9am, I go to the garage and check: the first pull is soft, second pull is fine. Ok then. The next morning I come back to my bike (bike hasn't moved, lots of time has elapsed): first pull is spot on. Then, for me, that's how I knew the rotors were causing it - as the pads were still set in the normal position from the day before. Nothing could've moved them. (And obviously the front pulsing at slow speeds no matter how deeply I cleaned the front rotors was a good give-away). I was also skeptical on my bike at the time of the first pull being soft, second pull good, as a matter of the system constantly having to rebuild the pressure back up with each first pull. The reason why I waited a whole day to check again, was because if it was a 'pressure needing to be build back up issue', it would've definitely presented itself again after 24 hours had passed. Meaning, that next morning the pressure should've been low and the first pull should've been soft, but that wasn't the case, so I knew it wasn't a pressure issue. I'm not trying to moralize at all, I'm just sharing my thought-process on how I went about troubleshooting my issue. There are a lot of forums that say that rotors don't warp, or at least not often. When reading that, I just assumed that it meant 'never'. But I've learned that it does happen, although probably very infrequently, and that it could happen to someone else too, though it's always good to troubleshoot first the easier/cheaper possible weak links in the chain. I'm glad I'm not experiencing what Ike is experiencing, that sounds super frustrating. So, I am wondering with Ike, is if his bike experiences these symptoms only when the bike is in motion, or whether also at a standstill. Say he's just sitting on the bike, first pull soft, second pull good... Let some time elapse (5,10,30,60 seconds, 5 minutes, whatever). First pull soft, second pull good... If that was the case, it ain't a rotor issue. (which we already know, I'm just saying...) So my question for Ike, does it do this at a standstill? Or only with the bike in motion? And if it does it at a standstill? How much time needs to elapse for the first pull to become soft again? For instance, first pull soft, second pull good, wait x amount of seconds/minutes, is the first pull still good? How time would need to elapse for the first pull to become soft again?
Exactly! This is how I know with mine that it is not a warped rotor issue. I can have a soft first pull and firm second pull. I can leave the bike in the exact same position(not moving/rolling/riding it) and come back to it minutes later and have the exact same condition, soft first pull and firm second pull.

-John
 

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Exactly! This is how I know with mine that it is not a warped rotor issue. I can have a soft first pull and firm second pull. I can leave the bike in the exact same position(not moving/rolling/riding it) and come back to it minutes later and have the exact same condition, soft first pull and firm second pull.

-John
Mine is the same. This only started happening after my first service though. At the same time they took clutch point out wider than from factory.
 

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To be honest, I got use to the lever feel.
With OEM setup, just Castrol SPF and titanium Nipples, I can get the back wheel to lift under hard brake at my local track. I get do get pad fade after a couple of laps
Ive now change to some SBS pads which ive got first track date next weekend.

One new thing im going to do is swap the castrol SPF fluid to some Endless RF fluid. Ive use this in my 4 wheel motorsport days and it has a high compression factor (firmer lever feel) and higher resistance to moisture ingress. Spec's are just a little under castrol SPF for both Dry and wet ratings. Plus its cheaper.
 

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It's not about the strength of the brakes, its about having to "pump" away what feels like an air bubble everytime for the brakes to feel responsive
 
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