[Curly]

Hi all,

My very first post on this board. I hope to be getting out of my Monster soon and onto a 959, which I cannot stop daydreaming about.

One of the things I like most about my Monster is how light it is. It's so agile and flickable, moreso than the 959 (although the 959 is more stable than the Monster). I was wondering about how to meaningfully lighten the 959. My ideas are:

- Lithium ion battery
- Carbon fiber wheels (although these are very expensive)

How else might you all suggest going about putting your 959 on a diet to make it handle even better?

(I know the 1299 (S?) is lighter than the 959 despite having a larger, heavier motor. I wonder what parts account for that difference in weight.)


Cheers,
-Curly

 

[Dingo]

Hello and welcome to the forum.

carbon fiber - get every available part on the market - could save up to 15lbs, including rear subframe
wheels - the lightest are either cf or forged AL from OZ, save between 8-14lbs depending on mfg
battery - like u mentioned could save 2-3lbs
fasteners - change them all to PROTI forged titanium, could save up to 5lbs
exhaust - full TI system could save up to 5lbs

after that there's nothing else unless you start removing equipment, like the rear brake and the evap cannister

 

[DJ Shrug]

One of the things I like most about my Monster is how light it is. It's so agile and flickable, moreso than the 959 (although the 959 is more stable than the Monster).

Indeed this is true, but not due to weight. Upright nakeds tend to have more favorable geometry for lower speed maneuvering than supersports and thus would have different riding characteristics. Sure suspension settings have some play into it, but it's mostly geometry. Handlebars have a little more leverage than clips-ons too, so you have that. @Dingo's suggestion for lighter rims is probably your best bet - reducing rotating mass will have the biggest reduction on gyroscopic stability which will aid in increased flickability.
@DarR just did a short write-up between his M1200R and 959 (Panigale / Monster: which do I prefer?) so you can check that out if you want.

 

[DarR]

Hi @Curly,
Welcome to the forum.
Although lighter weight will help maneuverability, lighter rims as @Dingo suggested will give you the biggest improvement. Like @DJ Shrug wrote, the flikability (love that word) is all about geometry and geometry is always a trade-off with stability. My Monster is heavier than my Panigale yet it is far more flikable at lower speeds. Superbikes and Hypernakeds are designed to excel* in different speed ranges. (excel* being defined as more than one quality).

You didn't mention which Monster you own but whichever it is, it would be nice if you can keep it to complement your upcoming 959.

 

[Curly]

All, thank you for the welcome to the board.

You make great points about geometry playing a large part in the difference in low-speed handling between the Monster and Panigale. I always attributed the difference to the weight delta between the bikes but this makes perfect sense. Thanks so much for pointing that out.

I have thoroughly enjoyed my M696 for the last 8 years and I still do love that bike. It's been great. I am itching for something new, however... I'm itching for a change. And I would prefer something more aggressive while I'm young and able-bodied. I figure, if I'm ever going to go superbike, the time is now.

I find how angry, wild and intense the 959 is to be very exciting. Last summer I rode the 899 and this summer have taken out a 959 twice. I can't stop thinking about it. It's not nearly as uncomfortable as I found the 848 to be. And yes, I would be giving up some of that low-speed flickability I enjoy in my Monster. But... everything has tradeoffs.

I will likely have to sell my Monster to get a 959, eventually. One day, I would hope to have two bikes. A superbike and a Multi to cover all my use cases.

Thanks for the notes on how to further lightweight the bike. I had a feeling carbon fiber wheels would make the biggest noticeable improvement but at significant cost, too. Perhaps one day.

Cheers, everyone. Thanks again for welcoming me to the board.

 

[TVGuy]

This thread has made me begin to itch for that set of Rotobox CF wheels again.


I sold my Monster to get my current 959. I'll say that I haven't regretted the decision for a moment. The only part I liked better about the Monster is the comfort on occasion. I then remind myself that if I was after comfort, I'd be on a cruiser.

 

[DJ Shrug]

While the 959's steering damper isn't that strong, that also reduces its flickability. From the few photos I looked at, it doesn't seem like a M696 doesn't have a steering damper, so that also plays into the difference you felt.

 

[DarR]

And I would prefer something more aggressive while I'm young and able-bodied. I figure, if I'm ever going to go superbike, the time is now.

Able-bodied, Yes..Young is relative.
Plenty of guys in their late sixties riding superbikes although they're riding time is negative theta and big-time positive gamma .

 

[Kruz]

I don't want to sound like a contrarian here but my suggestion is to buy the 959 and learn to ride it. In my humble opinion, it lacks nothing out of the crate, is already reasonably light and goes like stink when setup correctly. Right out of the box, it has way more potential than most of us are ever going to be able to use. Just my .02 worth. If you feel you need to spend a lot of money on it to make it look different , that is definitely your prerogative though.

 

[DarR]

What @Kruz said!
Although improvements mentioned above is textbook, they're really unnecessary unless you're an extreme caliber rider who will use these at the track. Otherwise, the 959 rocks as is.

 

[able duc]

What @Kruz said!
Although improvements mentioned above is textbook, they're really unnecessary unless you're an extreme caliber rider who will use these at the track. Otherwise, the 959 rocks as is.

Or you just like making an incredibly light bike even lighter and better like most of us. Battery, wheels, subrame and titanium exhaust are the easiest. The 1299 has a light subrame, fuel tank, lighter engine bits and if it's an S wheels.

Like Dingo said.

 

[DarR]

Or you just like making an incredibly light bike even lighter and better.

We've all made some mods to our bikes to suit our preferences whether those be performance related or cosmetic. I think what @Kruz was implying is the difference between "like to have" and "need to have".

 

[able duc]

Ok thanks for explaining what Kruz meant, but I like and need lightweight stuff weather I can use it for it's intended purpose is another thing.

Your not happy with your lightweight 959? And you don't think most of us need it to be any lighter?
I'm not sure what your point is.

 

[Curly]

I don't want to sound like a contrarian here but my suggestion is to buy the 959 and learn to ride it. In my humble opinion, it lacks nothing out of the crate, is already reasonably light and goes like stink when setup correctly. Right out of the box, it has way more potential than most of us are ever going to be able to use. Just my .02 worth. If you feel you need to spend a lot of money on it to make it look different , that is definitely your prerogative though.

100% agree, Kruz. The bike's capabilities far exceed mine.

I was just wondering if there were a reasonable way to gain back some of that lower-speed flickability I like in my Monster, that's all.

(Mods: I posted yesterday using the multi-quote function and after submitting, was told the post must be approved by the mods... could you approve, please?)

 

[dougo1199]

I would echo what @Kruz has said. The 959 is a really awesome package out of the crate. People purchase these types of bikes for different reasons, but for me the first order of business was to get the bikes geometry / suspension setup for my weight / riding style, and the only way to do that is with seat time! Take some time to get to know the bike. The carbon wheels are slick for sure, but they are definitely not essential in making these bikes "fickable". A suspension or exhaust upgrade would be money better spent, IMO. But like I say, we all have individual goals with these machines.

 

[dougo1199]

100% agree, Kruz. The bike's capabilities far exceed mine.

I was just wondering if there were a reasonable way to gain back some of that lower-speed flickability I like in my Monster, that's all.[/I]

Lightweight wheels will give you an advantage when changing direction at speed. Your suspension / geometry setup will be the most help for a low speed setup. Keep in mind though, superbikes are designed to work best at speed so they will never feel quite as stable as say your Monster at lowers speeds. Welcome to the forum, btw! :smile2:

 

[Kruz]

I would echo what @Kruz has said. The 959 is a really awesome package out of the crate. People purchase these types of bikes for different reasons, but for me the first order of business was to get the bikes geometry / suspension setup for my weight / riding style, and the only way to do that is with seat time! Take some time to get to know the bike. The carbon wheels are slick for sure, but they are definitely not essential in making these bikes "fickable". A suspension or exhaust upgrade would be money better spent, IMO. But like I say, we all have individual goals with these machines.

You nailed it Dougo, that's all I was really trying to say, hope I didn't come across as a curmudgeon, that was not my intent. If someone wants to have the lightest 959 out there and has the disposable income to spend on carbon fiber bits, I say go for it but like you said , careful suspension setup and saddle time are going to pay the greatest dividends by far.

 

[able duc]

"Carbon fiber bits" are probably not the best way to get the weight down on a 959 the plastic on these is light and the weight saving would be minimal, I think what others have said which are wheels, battery, full titanium exhaust and subframe are the big ones. If you don't think this type of weight saving makes any difference ride a stock one then one that's had a bit spent on it.

Curly when you get it have a suspension tuner or capable dealer setup the suspension for you, as the others have touched on the suspension is what it's all about I've spent a fortune on it but I've moved it from bike to bike, 899,959 and will now go onto the 1199 I just bought. A 959 handles like a 959 and there is not much you can change without upsetting what the designer originally did.

You'll get the hang of it and forget about all it's failings when you use it as the designers intended. The Pani is a beautiful thing.
I'm doing a minor service on the 899 before selling so better get back Akra exhaust onto 1199 tomorrow.

 

[Kruz]

Ableduc, with all due respect, this is not my first rodeo. I've modded many bikes over the years and my experience has always been that the biggest gains have been due to careful machine setup and working on riding skills. Once reaching the level where you are scratching for tenths on a track, then I can see the benefit of spending a lot of loot on lightweight mods but we are talking about relatively inexperienced riders here. An experienced rider on a stock machine is going to wax the floor with an inexperienced rider with all the lightweight mods every time. I stand by what I said earlier, setup your bike and learn to ride it first, the bling can always come later. If you disagree, that is fine but it's not going to change my mind.

 

[able duc]

Yes Kruz I agree, also nice track bike you have. I'm nearly 60 and have also been through the mill a few times

I'm no teacher or conveyer of wisdom I just speak from the heart and the love of fine machinery.