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Ugh, no thanks. Can't stand the guy. The GOAT never won a race on Casey's bike....
He still is one of the greatest though. Regardless of not winning on a Ducati.

Lets see what JLo can do on the Duc. Actually pretty excited to see him on a Duc.
 

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Ugh, no thanks. Can't stand the guy. The GOAT never won a race on Casey's bike....
VR46 reminds me of Conor McGregor in some ways. Probably the best of all time (in some ways), polarizing in the extreme (I've never met anyone who didn't either love the guy or hate him), but either way, you're still drawn to watch him. I was really excited about the VR46 and JL99 duel in Mugello that was shaping up to be epic until VR46 blew an engine. Still, @levigarrett is right about VR46's time at Ducati. He took a great bike that Casey had spent years dialing in and proceeded to undo everything they'd done. Even Casey, who seems incapable of saying anything harsh about anyone, has reserved some choice remarks about VR46. In regard to watching VR46 at Ducati, Casey basically said that it was hard to watch his, and the Ducati teams' work go down the drain as VR46 kept constantly tweaking the bike. It took Ducati years to recover from their case of VR46. Am I a fan of VR46? Meh. I can take him or leave him. It's kind of sad though, being a MotoGP fan now. Whatever sport you love, it's always hard to watch the greats crumble because they don't know when to quit. I think that's the case with VR46. It's a shame to watch him become the Brett Farve of MotoGP.
 

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[email protected]levigarrett is right about VR46's time at Ducati. He took a great bike that Casey had spent years dialing in and proceeded to undo everything they'd done...
with all due respect, at the level of racing these guys are at, all those years just made that Ducati motorcycle Casey's motorcycle!!!
Weren't we just talking about how suspension setup is a science... and each rider has his own riding style, mixed in with his own preferences for "feel"... It makes perfect sense that VR46 would make changes to the bike, just like how any current F1 driver would make changes to setup of an other teams car if he were to drive it for the season.
 

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with all due respect, at the level of racing these guys are at, all those years just made that Ducati motorcycle Casey's motorcycle!!!
Weren't we just talking about how suspension setup is a science... and each rider has his own riding style, mixed in with his own preferences for "feel"... It makes perfect sense that VR46 would make changes to the bike, just like how any current F1 driver would make changes to setup of an other teams car if he were to drive it for the season.
That's a fair comment, although when someone says "with all due respect", they usually mean "how stupid can you be?" :wink2: At the start, I'll just say that F1 drivers don't work with teammates who drive with them. They're THE driver of THE car that their team tunes to their liking - with some limitations. So your point is well taken there, but I don't think it carries over to MotoGP. So anyhoo, enough of F1. My understanding is that MotoGP teams will tune the bikes universally based on the riders and electronic input, but customize them in small ways so that the rider can ride as comfortably and confidently as possible. All other changes are for the sake of the bike. The data from each practice and each race is collected and changes are made. The accumulated data over the year dictates what changes will be made to the bike as a whole. This is done year after year, so the accumulated knowledge gained from all the data leads (theoretically) to improved bike geometry and more useable power each season. To be completely honest, I don't know for absolute sure that this is how it works, but I think it is. I do remember Hayden saying that he'd never seen anyone capable of getting what Casey got out of that bike and this was after they were teammates. Nicky had an issue with the bike "pumping" during corner exits, but that was just more data to be added to Stoner's data and the test crew's data. You do what you can to adjust for Nicky while doing what Casey needs done, all the wile staying within the rules and budget. A team has to ask themselves, how much can we change to help both riders before we need two completely different bikes, which then kicks us out of MotoGP because that's against the rules. Currently Rossi and Lorenzo are teammates on the Movistar Yamaha team. I think that each rider's bike is set up as far as possible so it best suits them, but the basic bike structure is the same for both. I don't think Yamaha tossed years of data in order to start from the ground up when Lorenzo joined the team. They took what Rossi and others had built, gave it to Lorenzo, who then started giving Yamaha his input, both verbally and electronically. Then they start to build on his input as well. MotoGP rule don't allow two completely different bikes. Not good from the team's point of view either. The data would conflict too much to build a better bike for next season. Look at Mugello. Same basic bike tuned to that track. The only difference being the the individual rider. That's why we could such a great battle shaping up there. Two different riders on essentially identical bikes, swapping leads. Even seat height won't be changed due to height or weight. As an example, look at Pedrosa. He's 5'2" and weighs 114 lbs. Respol Honda won't change the basic bike to fit his stature. He still needs to be held upright on the bike when it's standing still. It's harder for him, physically, to ride the bike than for other riders because of all the extreme weight shifts he has to make during a race, since he basically weighs nothing. But the data shows that the BIKE works best like that - the RIDER has to make his own adjustments in style, etc. Some riders are great - they can adjust every time. Others, well they can't. Like I said, you have a fair point and I'm no MotoGP expert - just a fan. But I do think it's a different game with those guys than you and I trying to make bike geometry changes.
 
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He still is one of the greatest though. Regardless of not winning on a Ducati.

Lets see what JLo can do on the Duc. Actually pretty excited to see him on a Duc.


I think Ducati's MotoGP program is pretty well sorted now compared to back in Rossi's day there, predicting JLo will do well.


I think Rossi's problems on the Duc say more about Casey Stoner's ability to adapt to, what was, a very difficult machine to win on, than it does about any lack of talent on Rossi's part. As I recall, the front end on the GP8 had poor feedback and would tuck in high speed corners without warning. Stoner somehow figured out how to keep the shiny bits pointing up long enough to take home a Championship....good on him!
 

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That's a fair comment, although when someone says "with all due respect", they usually mean "how stupid can you be?" :wink2: At the start, I'll just say that F1 drivers don't work with teammates who drive with them. They're THE driver of THE car that their team tunes to their liking - with some limitations. So your point is well taken there, but I don't think it carries over to MotoGP. So anyhoo, enough of F1. My understanding is that MotoGP teams will tune the bikes universally based on the riders and electronic input, but customize them in small ways so that the rider can ride as comfortably and confidently as possible. All other changes are for the sake of the bike. The data from each practice and each race is collected and changes are made. The accumulated data over the year dictates what changes will be made to the bike as a whole. This is done year after year, so the accumulated knowledge gained from all the data leads (theoretically) to improved bike geometry and more useable power each season. To be completely honest, I don't know for absolute sure that this is how it works, but I think it is. I do remember Hayden saying that he'd never seen anyone capable of getting what Casey got out of that bike and this was after they were teammates. Nicky had an issue with the bike "pumping" during corner exits, but that was just more data to be added to Stoner's data and the test crew's data. You do what you can to adjust for Nicky while doing what Casey needs done, all the wile staying within the rules and budget. A team has to ask themselves, how much can we change to help both riders before we need two completely different bikes, which then kicks us out of MotoGP because that's against the rules. Currently Rossi and Lorenzo are teammates on the Movistar Yamaha team. I think that each rider's bike is set up as far as possible so it best suits them, but the basic bike structure is the same for both. I don't think Yamaha tossed years of data in order to start from the ground up when Lorenzo joined the team. They took what Rossi and others had built, gave it to Lorenzo, who then started giving Yamaha his input, both verbally and electronically. Then they start to build on his input as well. MotoGP rule don't allow two completely different bikes. Not good from the team's point of view either. The data would conflict too much to build a better bike for next season. Look at Mugello. Same basic bike tuned to that track. The only difference being the the individual rider. That's why we could such a great battle shaping up there. Two different riders on essentially identical bikes, swapping leads. Even seat height won't be changed due to height or weight. As an example, look at Pedrosa. He's 5'2" and weighs 114 lbs. Respol Honda won't change the basic bike to fit his stature. He still needs to be held upright on the bike when it's standing still. It's harder for him, physically, to ride the bike than for other riders because of all the extreme weight shifts he has to make during a race, since he basically weighs nothing. But the data shows that the BIKE works best like that - the RIDER has to make his own adjustments in style, etc. Some riders are great - they can adjust every time. Others, well they can't. Like I said, you have a fair point and I'm no MotoGP expert - just a fan. But I do think it's a different game with those guys than you and I trying to make bike geometry changes.
With more due respect, to say that Rossi "undid the great bike that stoner developed" is a pretty subjective claim. Look at his(stoner's) wins by season. 10 in 2007, 6 in 2008, 4 in 2009, and 3 in 2010. I would venture to say they had a good bike in the gp7 and 8, but the decline is very apparent.

The Ducati only became competitive again when they were considered an open rule team, now that they have come back to factory team status the Andreas are doing pretty badly.

As always I feel like Ducati was much more interested in retaining their status in WSBK. But now that the bike is almost back or could be back to 2007 status, I feel like they are investing in motogp again with the big money they put down to obtain Lorenzo. I am interested to see Lorenzo try to tackle the Ducati.


Long time Rossi fan; New Ducati fan
 

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I used to adore JLo for the dark mystique around his character, the "go around the outside of X through the corner" logo deemed 'Por Fuera' as well as his talented, smooth mid-apex speed. So much so that I had an X-Lite X-802RR Lorenzo replica with the red & white 99's on the sides—and the Trojan head in the back of the helmet—shipped from Italy, for an obscene amount of money, back in the day. This was, of course, because they're not DOT approved and Nolan doesn't sell their high-end lineup here states-side. It's a magnificent lid, one of the most comfortable and lightest, but I may just need to offload it. He gradually became way full of himself, an elitist towards the rest of the riders—especially on mindful issues like the safety commission, and an all-around contemptible individual who has a totally negative vibe with mind games and condescending energy. Sepang last year was the last straw, after that exaggerated, controversial race, and just how disrespectful he was, let alone his typically babied, overtly-needy complaining. I was always a huge Rossi fan, but just wasn't into the Japanese manufacturers and still am not. Who can deny his entertaining, aggressive riding style and the creative mind behind all of those epic celebration antics? The funny jokes in speeches during press conferences, the way he talks, and the positive smiles. It all adds up. It's not an enigma why VR46 has become a culture and a way of life. The two years with Ducati were very befitting and joyous. The GOAT on the quintessential Italian bike; what could possibly be better? Results, sure, but there was a sense of flamboyance further accentuated. I'm gutted Ducati Corse dropped Iannone, who is arguably the most Rossi-like personality on the grid aside Petrucci, but they think consistency is more important than all-out speed and that's fine. But signing JLo and making him the lead rider just to win a championship? Ugh... talk about adding insult to injury. I hope Dovizioso can somehow shine by presenting how acclimated he is to the bike of then some-years, rather than letting JLo walk away with the higher results.
 

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I used to adore JLo for the dark mystique around his character, the "go around the outside of X through the corner" logo deemed 'Por Fuera' as well as his talented, smooth mid-apex speed. So much so that I had an X-Lite X-802RR Lorenzo replica with the red & white 99's on the sides—and the Trojan head in the back of the helmet—shipped from Italy, for an obscene amount of money, back in the day. This was, of course, because they're not DOT approved and Nolan doesn't sell their high-end lineup here states-side. It's a magnificent lid, one of the most comfortable and lightest, but I may just need to offload it. He has gradually become way full of himself, an elitist towards the rest of the riders—especially on mindful issues like the safety commission, and an all-around contemptible individual who has a totally negative vibe with psychological know-it-all games and condescending energy. Sepang last year was the last straw; after that exaggerated, controversial race came to light, he publicly made a fool of himself with just how disrespectful he was, let alone his typically babied, overtly-needy complaining. I was always a huge Rossi fan, but simply wasn't into the Japanese manufacturers and still am not. Who can deny his entertaining, aggressive riding style and the creative mind behind all of those epic celebration antics? The funny jokes in speeches during press conferences, the way he talks and the positive smiles. It all adds up. It's not an enigma why VR46 has become a culture and a way of life. The two years with Ducati were very befitting and joyous. The GOAT on the quintessential Italian bike; what could possibly be better? Results, sure, but there was a sense of flamboyance further accentuated. I'm gutted Ducati Corse dropped Iannone, who is arguably the most Rossi-like personality on the grid aside Petrucci, but they think consistency is more important than all-out speed and that's fine. Yet signing JLo and making him the lead rider in order to win the championship? Ugh... talk about adding insult to injury. Here's to hoping that Dovizioso can somehow shine by presenting how acclimated he is to the bike of then some-years, rather than letting JLo walk away with the higher results. Or perhaps Stoner will change his mind and ease his annoyance of the politics and white noise to hop onto Dovi's seat for 2018? Till then, I'll keep dreaming. One thing I'll know for sure, is that there will still be booing heard from the Ducati stands at Mugello and Misano next year, despite however much 99 tries to build a legacy. It's very difficult to rebuild trust and recuperate into a heroic image when you've been a stain of a cheap personality for so long.

Returned after the 10 minute posting threshold was over to make changes and additions to my reply. I would much appreciate deleting the former one above. @959Admin, any help?
 
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