Ducati 959 Panigale Forum banner

1 - 14 of 14 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
69 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hi All


Sorry for the naïve question but I read a lot about 'rev matching' in other posts, particularly relating to EBC. Can anyone explain to me what is meant by 'rev matching' and why its important??


Simon
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,920 Posts
What's described as "rev matching" is when you twist the throttle to give the engine RPM's in order to match the revs during your down-shift. It's also referred to as "blipping" the throttle during a down-shift. It allows for a smoother transition to slow down, as opposed to just down-shifting and making the engine brake at whatever RPM it's at.

Hope that helps!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
84 Posts
What's described as "rev matching" is when you twist the throttle to give the engine RPM's in order to match the revs during your down-shift. It's also referred to as "blipping" the throttle during a down-shift. It allows for a smoother transition to slow down, as opposed to just down-shifting and making the engine brake at whatever RPM it's at.

Hope that helps!
Dingo got it right. It helps on bikes with high-torque and without a slipper clutch. Without rev matching and a slipper clutch the down-shift would sometimes cause the rear wheel to "skip" when the clutch plates would grab.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
892 Posts

In my honest opinion, down-shifting without rev-matching is one of the cringiest things anyone could do on a manual transmission motor vehicle. Rev-matching allows you to be smooth for deceleration while keeping the engine in a more favorable range for when you get back on it. Eliminates distractions and/or hesitation when you get used to it.

You could do without and never need it, but to me, its just a skill you can learn very easily. Twist of the Wrist (~1:51) has a section on it and shows the differences between not rev-matching, rev-matching too slow, over rev-matching, and doing it right.
 
  • Like
Reactions: redsc1 and SixShock

·
Registered
Joined
·
439 Posts
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnXLZg_O1rk

In my honest opinion, down-shifting without rev-matching is one of the cringiest things anyone could do on a manual transmission motor vehicle. Rev-matching allows you to be smooth for deceleration while keeping the engine in a more favorable range for when you get back on it. Eliminates distractions and/or hesitation when you get used to it.

You could do without and never need it, but to me, its just a skill you can learn very easily. Twist of the Wrist (~1:51) has a section on it and shows the differences between not rev-matching, rev-matching too flow, over rev-matching, and doing it right.




Or you could always just pick up a Nismo...
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
50 Posts
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnXLZg_O1rk

In my honest opinion, down-shifting without rev-matching is one of the cringiest things anyone could do on a manual transmission motor vehicle. Rev-matching allows you to be smooth for deceleration while keeping the engine in a more favorable range for when you get back on it. Eliminates distractions and/or hesitation when you get used to it.

You could do without and never need it, but to me, its just a skill you can learn very easily. Twist of the Wrist (~1:51) has a section on it and shows the differences between not rev-matching, rev-matching too flow, over rev-matching, and doing it right.
The Twist of the Wrist video is excellent! I shall be attempting this again and try to learn it. I've actually tried this before on my car with the Heel Toe method but i found it extremely hard to do. Basically my leg and foot didnt bend that way :). This looks much more feasible on my bike.

Thanks for the explanation guys!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
892 Posts
I heel toe on my car as well, but its super easy on a bike and second nature to me.

Just one thing to remember if you're learning to brake and rev-match downshift at the same time: give extra space between you and the next obstacle in front of you. It's really easy to not brake enough or end up over rev-matching and lurch forward. There's also the case that if you panic, you can freeze up and end up braking and throttling at the same time.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SixShock

·
Registered
Joined
·
50 Posts
I heel toe on my car as well, but its super easy on a bike and second nature to me.

Just one thing to remember if you're learning to brake and rev-match downshift at the same time: give extra space between you and the next obstacle in front of you. It's really easy to not brake enough or end up over rev-matching and lurch forward. There's also the case that if you panic, you can freeze up and end up braking and throttling at the same time.
Just got back from a ride of practicing this :) Yep, I learned this by attempting it. My first few attempts i kept over revving and lurching forward. I thought "Ok, i should be careful doing this if i have to actually brake hard" (i was just attempting on open roads with no one around.)

I got the general hang of it pretty fast, one thing that helped (and please correct me if this is incorrect) it seemed to go very smoothly if i just thought of 'blipping' the throttle and downshifting at the exact same time. since at that moment i always have the clutch naturally pulled it. It prevented me from still "blipping" while i left go of the clutch.

so it was [1]Pull in the clutch , then, [2] blip and downshift at the same time [3] release clutch. Seemed to prevent me from overrevving, which yes would be bad in a true braking situation.

Now to just get the hang of doing this while grabbing the front break with my index finger. So far so good. I'm pretty new so it's fun learning this stuff. Thanks! :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
69 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Hey Guys - thanks so much for all the advice and your replies. The Twist Of The Wrist video is great and makes sense. Now I have to get out and practise!!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
40 Posts
Not sure if any of you guys have tried clutchless shifting? Obviously the 959's trickery handles upshifting but I'm talking about downshifting (and up shifting without a quick shifter). If not, it's easier than it sounds and once you get the hang of it, you won't turn back. Basic method for downshifting is;

1. Apply gentle to moderate downward pressure on the shifter while the bike is coasting. It's obviously not going to change at this point as the engine speed and new gear speed are misaligned and there's pressure on the gear that's engaged.
2. Gently give the throttle a small blip.

That's it! As the pressure on the previous gear is released, the new gear should smoothly drop in with no ceremony or palava.

I find this is the smoothest (and fastest) way to change gears. It's awesome round the circuit as the rear wheel never gets disturbed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
892 Posts
Not sure if any of you guys have tried clutchless shifting? Obviously the 959's trickery handles upshifting but I'm talking about downshifting (and up shifting without a quick shifter). If not, it's easier than it sounds and once you get the hang of it, you won't turn back. Basic method for downshifting is;

1. Apply gentle to moderate downward pressure on the shifter while the bike is coasting. It's obviously not going to change at this point as the engine speed and new gear speed are misaligned and there's pressure on the gear that's engaged.
2. Gently give the throttle a small blip.

That's it! As the pressure on the previous gear is released, the new gear should smoothly drop in with no ceremony or palava.

I find this is the smoothest (and fastest) way to change gears. It's awesome round the circuit as the rear wheel never gets disturbed.
I do it ALL the time when my left hand is lazy.

I would not say that its smooth when compared to a proper rev-matched downshift though. With most motorcycle transmissions (or any tranny with straight cut gears), its the action of unloading the transmission (ie. throttle on to throttle off) that allows gear shifts without the clutch. With clutchless shifts however, the engine still has to get up to speed with the tire and it can disturb the rear tire due to the abrupt change in output speed. With our 959s this is no problem as the slipper clutch smooths it out.

Another handy skill to know, and once again, very easy to learn. I hope to never have to use it, but clutchless shifting comes in handy if something happens to the clutch.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
40 Posts
With clutchless shifts however, the engine still has to get up to speed with the tire and it can disturb the rear tire due to the abrupt change in output speed. With our 959s this is no problem as the slipper clutch smooths it out.
I don't find this at all. I think it's a matter of blipping the throttle sufficiently. I used this shifting method exclusively on my R6 (with no slipper) and never once felt the rear tire disturbed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
50 Posts
So question for all you rev matching folks.

Lately I've been noticing that when i blip that my engine isnt immediately revving up. its almost kinda bogged for the blip. so it's making my rev matching kinda pointless (becuase the rpms done spike up when i do it). I dont know what's going on. When i first started learning to do this it seemed like it blip'd just fine. I had recently taking it in to get the cold start checked out and the tech did say that he did a flash update on the ECU.

to provide more context. If i'm downshifting and the bike is already rev'd pretty good like like near 5k, the blips rev up no problem. But just coming to a stoplight and going back down to 1st im noticing i almost need to blip twice. first one is kinda boggy and then the second one revs proper.

Is this normal? Am I just trying to rev match when the bike is already in a low RPM state?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
892 Posts
So question for all you rev matching folks.

Lately I've been noticing that when i blip that my engine isnt immediately revving up. its almost kinda bogged for the blip. so it's making my rev matching kinda pointless (becuase the rpms done spike up when i do it). I dont know what's going on. When i first started learning to do this it seemed like it blip'd just fine. I had recently taking it in to get the cold start checked out and the tech did say that he did a flash update on the ECU.

to provide more context. If i'm downshifting and the bike is already rev'd pretty good like like near 5k, the blips rev up no problem. But just coming to a stoplight and going back down to 1st im noticing i almost need to blip twice. first one is kinda boggy and then the second one revs proper.

Is this normal? Am I just trying to rev match when the bike is already in a low RPM state?
I think its just something you have to learn as far as differences between low/mid RPM rev-matches. How low are you rev-matching from? No bogging here.
 
1 - 14 of 14 Posts
Top